SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Russian dissidents who were released in a prisoner swap say they will soon hold a rally in Germany. They want to see Western countries remain united against Russia's war in Ukraine, and they want to show that their voices remain relevant even in exile. NPR's Michele Kelemen met a couple of them in Washington.
ILYA YASHIN: My name is Ilya Yashin. I spent in prison for 25 months.
VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA: My name is Vladimir Kara-Murza, and it was two years, three months.
MICHELE KELEMEN, BYLINE: These are two of the Russian opposition figures who were traded in August for Russian spies and criminals in the largest prisoner swap in the post-Cold War era. Ilya Yashin did not want to be part of it.
YASHIN: That's true. I didn't want to be exchanged because Russia is my home, and I do not believe that we can change Russia from outside. We can change it from - only from inside.
KELEMEN: But he says he's doing his best in exile now, planning a rally in Berlin November 17 to protest Russia's war against Ukraine.
YASHIN: We would like to make strong anti-war movement, and we would like to send message to our people in Russia. We're together, and we have solidarity, and we would like to ask our people in Russia, do not give up and stay strong.
KELEMEN: But Russian dissidents lost a key unifying figure this year, Alexei Navalny, who died in a Russian penal colony. Vladimir Kara-Murza says this is no time for opposition figures to bicker or debate each other. He says he's taking a page from Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky, who was expelled in 1976 after 12 years in prisons and psychiatric wards.
MURZA: He said that nobody will ever again be able to divide us into different political camps, a left-wing camp or a right-wing camp, because we were all together in the same concentration camp.
KELEMEN: Kara-Murza says, prison has a way of setting your priorities straight.
MURZA: We have one common opponent, one common enemy. That is the murderer and the usurper who's sitting in the Kremlin, who, for 25 years, has been attacking and violating the most basic rights and freedoms of the Russian people, who has been attacking and invading other countries. And so whatever differences we might have among ourselves, they just completely pale in comparison to our common struggle against this dictatorship.
KELEMEN: Ilya Yashin says when he was in prison, he tried to talk other inmates out of signing contracts to join President Vladimir Putin's war against Ukraine. Now he's meeting with world leaders making this argument.
YASHIN: If you would like to help Russian Democratic movement, you should save Ukraine from Mr. Putin, from Putin's aggression because, first of all, if you think that Putin will stop in Ukraine, he won't.
KELEMEN: Kara-Murza says the West also needs to continue to reach out to Russians who want a different future.
MURZA: One thing we know from the modern history of Russia is that major political changes in our country happen like this, the snap of a finger. Both the czarist regime at the beginning of the 20th century and the Communist regime at the end of the 20th century collapsed in three days, literally speaking, and nobody saw it coming. This is exactly how change is going to come to Russia next time. And it is crucial that next time, we get it right.
KELEMEN: He says this was something that came up when he spoke with President Biden soon after the prisoner swap.
MURZA: At one point, he turned to me and said, how do you see Russia in 10 years? And I said, thank you, Mr. President. We need more questions like this from world statesmen because people are too focused on what's happening here and now. We need to think ahead. We need to think to the future because change will come to Russia, and we'll have to be ready for it.
KELEMEN: Michele Kelemen, NPR News, the State Department.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
