ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Just hours before leaving office, former President Joe Biden took the rare step of issuing preemptive pardons for potential targets of his successor. The list includes members of the House Select January 6 Committee that investigated the attack on the Capitol. Speaking to supporters in an overflow room in the Capitol, President Trump lobbed personal insults against two of the Republican committee members.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Why are we helping Liz Cheney? I mean, Liz Cheney is a disaster. She's a crying lunatic. And crying Adam Kinzinger, he's a super crier. I never saw the guy not crying. He's always crying.
SHAPIRO: Biden's pardons also included retired General Mark Milley and Dr. Anthony Fauci. And at the last minute, before Trump was sworn in, Biden also added preemptive pardons for five of his own family members. NPR congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales is covering this issue. Hey, Claudia.
CLAUDIA GRISALES, BYLINE: Hey, Ari.
SHAPIRO: OK, so this is one of Biden's final actions as president. Walk us through how he defended it.
GRISALES: Right. He said in a statement issued hours before he left office that the preemptive pardons were needed because of, quote, "unjustified and politically motivated prosecutions" by the Trump administration. He went on to say, as reported by our colleague Tamara Keith, that the issuance of these pardons should not, quote, "be mistaken as acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing."
And we know, for example, Fauci was targeted for his role as a top adviser during the pandemic, Milley for making statements against Trump and detailing his role in the January 6 attack, which, of course, was the reason that that committee was targeted as well. In a separate statement, Biden issued pardons for those family members - as we mentioned, that includes his brother, James Biden - and he argued they had been unfairly targeted.
SHAPIRO: We heard Trump's reaction there at the top. How have other Republicans responded?
GRISALES: There is a level of fury for Republicans focused on retribution for these folks that pardons could derail their plans now. At the same time, we know there's a lot of division within the Republican Party on whether to pursue this revenge on Trump's behalf. For example, nominated attorney general Pam Bondi told senators that there would be no political prosecutions on her watch.
SHAPIRO: Were the people who got these pardons surprised?
GRISALES: In some cases, yes. But for these more high-profile folks, no. Discussions have been ongoing for months behind closed doors on whether they would benefit from these pardons. Both Fauci, Milley and the House Select Committee all issued statements. Fauci and the committee, for example, expressed sentiments of gratitude. The committee itself - there was even division over this in past months. I learned they met behind closed doors. But by issuing a joint statement, it signaled they were on the same page. Meanwhile, Milley said he didn't want to drag family and friends through a retribution campaign.
SHAPIRO: The list is pretty far reaching. It even includes congressional aides to the House Select Committee. What are people saying about how this could all play out now under the Trump administration?
GRISALES: Well, there's plenty of legal uncertainties on how it will play out. For example, this was a surprise for those staffers for the January 6 panel, according to a source not authorized to speak on the record. They told me they didn't expect this. And this would include more than 50 congressional aides that worked with the committee. But now there's questions of how exactly this will play out if these folks are indeed targeted for prosecution by the Trump administration.
SHAPIRO: NPR's Claudia Grisales, thank you.
GRISALES: Thank you so much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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