DON GONYEA, HOST:
Firings at the most senior level of the U.S. military are causing concern among present and former military leadership about the political independence of the nation's defense forces. Last night, President Donald Trump fired four-star general Charles Q. Brown Jr., a one-time fighter pilot who was only the second Black officer to hold the title of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In total, six Pentagon officials have been fired, including the first woman to lead the Navy, the vice chief of the Air Force and the top lawyers for the Army, Navy, and Air Force.
The Trump administration insists the firings are due to the military leadership's focus on diversity, saying that it has lost sight of its role as a combat force. But Rear Admiral Mike Smith, president of the National Security Leaders for America, says these changes are about politics. He joins me now. Welcome, Admiral.
MIKE SMITH: Hi, Don. Thank you for having me.
GONYEA: Please expand on that - how these changes are about politics.
SMITH: It's unprecedented for an incoming president to come in and purge the senior leadership of the military. You know, the one thing that has kept our military strong has been the fact that it is apolitical, that no matter who the president is, that your oath to the Constitution is, you obey every lawful order, no matter what the policy is or what the party is. And now this first-of-a-kind purging is going to add a whole new dynamic, which ultimately is going to undermine the strength of our military.
GONYEA: I want you to amplify that point you just made, that an apolitical military is important to national defense.
SMITH: It's the - really the bedrock of our country. We've always said that the military will not be involved in politics. You have civilian control of the military. The civilian leadership at the political level is replaced as a new administration comes in. But despite that change, the military leadership is there to serve whoever happens to be in charge because that's what America is all about. It's civilian control of the military.
And you don't want the military officers to be wondering and questioning now. Well, I know that's a lawful order, but it's being given by a president who only has two months left, and now they have to have a new calculus about whether or not they'll be fired by the next president by enacting the order of the current president. That will undermine so many aspects of our strength and our readiness and our effectiveness.
GONYEA: I'm wondering what kind of impact it can have on people considering joining the military, on recruitment.
SMITH: You know, I think that you have to step back and take a look at the actions that are being done. Some of the reporting is that it's based on DEI. The official statements they put out don't say that, but some of the reporting from folks inside the administration does say that it's because of that. So if that's true, we're going to have not only a problem recruiting, as you're bringing up, but what about retention?
I mean, I know Lisa Franchetti, the chief of naval operations, the first female in that position. Matter of fact, when I was in my first admiral job in the Pentagon, she was a captain, and there was a conversation where she was wondering if she was going to be selected to admiral 'cause a board was coming up. She was so spectacular then that I looked at her then, and I said, Lisa, you have no worries about making admiral. Not only that, we will all work for you one day - not because of her gender, but because of how great an officer she was.
So what signal are we sending to today's Lisas out there who are doing fantastic jobs commanding their ships? What are we telling them? We don't want you to serve in leadership positions because you're a woman? If this is all true, We have a huge problem both with recruiting but also with retention.
GONYEA: General Brown, as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, served in an advisory role. People will ask, shouldn't the president have the control to put advisers he trusts in those positions?
SMITH: Presidents do have that authority. When the time comes for the chairman's tour to be over, then they can nominate an individual just like he did in his first term when he nominated General Milley to be the chairman. It was his choice to put that general in as the chairman. But no one has come in and fired a chairman like this.
Senator Reed, who sits on the Senate Armed Service Committee, wrote an op-ed today and - suggesting that it was for perceived political disloyalty. No serving officer demonstrates political disloyalty. They've been brought up in an organization where you follow civilian leadership. That's what they have been brought up to do. That's what their oath to the Constitution is all about.
GONYEA: We should note that the firings of these military leaders that we've been talking about - it comes amidst other layoffs. It was announced on Friday that 5,400 civilian Pentagon employees will be fired starting next week. The ultimate plan is to reduce the Pentagon's workforce of more than 700,000 full-time civilian employees by up to 8%. Would you worry that the military could be under resource?
SMITH: Well, if you start to get those levels - and the 5,000 next week are not at those levels. But if you get to that level, you have to see, are you now cutting into the muscle of the organization? You know, the Pentagon - the strength is that we have continuity. The political leadership changes every four to eight years. The continuity provided by the civil servants who are there for years and years serving their country in critical positions - they need to be protected so that the lessons learned don't have to be repeated.
GONYEA: That was retired Rear Admiral Mike Smith, president of National Security Leaders for America. Thank you.
SMITH: Thank you, Don. I appreciate you having me on. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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